-Are NFL running backs underpaid?
-Should the Angels trade Shohei Ohtani?
-Jaylen Brown and Aaron Rodger contract extensions convo
-Are NFL running backs underpaid?
-Should the Angels trade Shohei Ohtani?
-Jaylen Brown and Aaron Rodger contract extensions convo
Just a stat. Ready to Johnson, Eugene Ward, and coming to you from the lovely city of Atlanta, Georgia. And evening, this has been a very interesting interesting subject, I should say. Because we're gonna talk about running back and and welcome to our YouTube channel and and the show in general if you're watching on TikTok listening on Spotify, Stitcher, IR radio, Google Podcasts, where we find your podcast. Much appreciated for sharing some time with us here. We're going to discuss a little bit about the the running back situation. No. And you know what's crazy about the running backs and pay an importance of this position is just how much it's changed in my lifetime -- Yeah. -- to being minimized to a certain degree. And this is something that was similar to centers for a while until you got centers like yokich and and eat and stuff like that. But even a center like yokich in in basketball, is a a center that's playing that has some other characteristics. He has guard characteristics. He can shoot the perimeter shot, he could pass, and stuff
Speaker 2:like that.
Speaker 1:So even that is something that change from what a traditional center is. And with the running backs, if you are the for for one, the Derek Henry Nick Chubb type running backs are are almost like dinosaurs at this point. Right.
Speaker 2:They're a lot They
Speaker 1:only have a lot of guys who like that, who just run you over guys, Eugene, you know -- Mhmm. -- that we've been kinda used to seeing in life. So recently, we had the Séquharne Barclay situation is kinda what brought this up, but this has been on this has been building. This isn't something that has just happened this year. But I think the Sequharne Barclay idalvan Cook situations, and even with Jacobs in with the Raiders, you know, trying to get paid. All these guys are being franchised, paid by ten million dollars. It's interesting because with the giants in particular, in Austin equity, let me add him too because he's gonna really key into this episode. We're gonna pull up some stats here soon. And, you know, as a matter of fact, maybe we should go to that. Now. Let me let's let's go to some stats now. We'll go ahead and add it add it to the stream here. So you know what's interesting with the giant situation in particular is their Sake Juan Barclay in my opinion is their best player. And if you're looking here on our streaming for people who aren't able to watch, I'll go ahead and and explain some of these stats for you as I put them on the screen here. Daniel Jones, eight eleven career record without St. Kwan Barclay. Now what's interesting about this is not just the record that Daniel Jones has, is it just a correlation between how different he looks in general? With Sequan on the field? It was Sequan not on the field. It's like a -- Right. -- different person. You know what I mean? Yeah. So pivotal to your team he is. And yet you can't get this done. Now, some of the evidence I bring up in this episode is and I would venture to say most of it is gonna be in support of the Giants. So degree because there's just not gonna be a lot of evidence that I'm gonna present that's going to support paying a running back because, unfortunately, it just doesn't lead to w's. It doesn't lead to long term success. Doesn't lead to super bland. And we'll towards the end of here, bring up some suitable money backs.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And some of those names you're not even gonna know. Almost guaranteed. You're not even gonna know every you're not even gonna know every person on that list. So getting back to the Saint Juan situation, what what are your thoughts on where the giants stand. I I don't I mean, I get not giving him, like, a five year deal. Okay? Four or five year deal. Alright. Could you given him, like, a three year could you give him a three year two year guarantee? What is that crazy? Yeah. I feel like you could have given him, like, a three year forty. Let's just throw that out there. Let's throw a random number out there. A three year forty two year guarantee.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Is that crazy? Like, I don't I don't think he's making what? Ten nine now?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I don't think that that's something that's too wild, you know. We had thought on that.
Speaker 2:Well, he's already turned I guess I guess what is he looking for? I know he's already turned now. A fourteen year? So a fourteen guaranteed. I think that was a two or three that that guarantee would be. It You're right, though. The issue is I mean, is I mean, I know Daniel Jones is gonna be the the worst example, but he is at half at a quarterback. And so he could still stretch the field with his legs. And that's the problem now. You're seeing more and more guys come into the league that can stretch the field. You know, they don't they're not gonna get you maybe that that that ten fifty yards. But if it's fourth and one, and you've got Daniel Jones. You got a a Jaitlyn Hertz back there. Those guys can get you the one yard that you need. And maybe that's and that's where you come up against paying like a Sequan. But here's the big thing with Sequan is he's also a good pass were you passed receiving running back. So I I just I I you know, they were successful because they called in this year. They they they were a two headed month or what Daniel Jones can say called marketing. So I'm I'm with you. I mean, it's gonna be hard to present the evidence, but unless this this team isn't making a step forward without him this year. And Yeah. That's that's my only agreeing with it. Because Daniel Jones did have the he could Seacong could bail him out so many times, either whether his legs be handling the ball from them or you're just being on on the flat and just catching it out there and creating. And that's that's a thing that I think people are, you know, I understand that, you know, running backs, but there's so many go ones out there that could catch it at, like Sequan, can catch it and create it run. And I think the val is that lucky with with Bijan because Bijan, I think can he can definitely be that for us. So but again, in four years, when that, you know, well, five years after probably, you know, we pick up the option or whatever. The you know, are we gonna pay him when he's twenty five? You know, what what's that look like? What was that market look like for him?
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of which, just go ahead and look at some of these some of these stats because interesting enough that you bring him up when you look at the stats here on what running backs are getting paid in general for just for this upcoming season, Bijan is getting paid the most. Thirteen seven. For Bijan this upcoming season, twelve for Christian McAfee, eleven for Alcon tomorrow. Christian McAfee, tomorrow, I think have overall one of the biggest contracts in, and I wanna say McAfee probably has the biggest But here's the thing. When you look at this list so let's look at this list and I'm a scroll down here. Mhmm. Bijan Robinson one Christopher Caffrey, two at twelve, at eleven, at eleven. So for one, we don't know what Bijan's even gonna be, and this is this is the on a noble year for for them. This is kind of based on where they got drafted as far as with the cash that they're being paid. So Right. This is not like this is what it would be going forward. So you do have some anomalies in here, Bijan, Jamir Gibbs, those are both players that are going to be paid a lot this year based on where they were drafted. Aaron Jones at four, Ten nine for him. Nick Chubb is at five, ten eight. We have jamere Gibbs, six ten seven for him, Derek Henry at seven, ten five, and say three head of monster of Seguin Barkley Josh Jacobs and Tony Pollard because they were all franchised. Yeah. They were at around roughly ten million. Mhmm. And then it drops down to Fred James Connor at eleven, at eight, and we'll just kind of stop there.
Speaker 3:Actually, let's see here. Let's see if we can go down to Austin Echler, because he's at six two.
Speaker 1:So, you know, there is gonna be I'm gonna make a a case to pay Austin Echler. So to then stay tuned in for that because I'm gonna make a case to pay him. But these other guys, Dave Montgomery is six two. Miles Sanders six nine. Okay? James Connor eight. It's not a I mean, when you look at the teams that were successful making deep postseason runs, you look at so Nick Chubb, let's take him, for example, great running back. Right? Especially, you know, your Fantasy team. This guy's gonna set your set the world on fire here for you. But here's the problem. Never really leads to success for the Cleveland Browns. Right? Like, the Cleveland Browns were still Cleveland Browns. I got the the fifth highest paid running back, and it did not correlate.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Here in Jones, fourth highest paid running back, did not correlate late at least last year.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Ivan Kumar, third highest paid running back, definitely did not correlate last year. So Christopher Kathy did pretty good last year, so I he was amazing for the for the fourth year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And he makes the most sense. Right? Because he does all those other things. Not like you can run it, but he can also catch the ball. And, you know, you don't think you want him being your your quarterback, but they really had no choice at the end of last year's. NSC NSC Games, though, NSC Title game.
Speaker 1:Well, let's let's go here to looking at the receivers. So Austin Nackler, for what Austin Nackler is getting paid, he gets paid less than what it if he was a receiver, he became paid less than Cedric Wilson. And wrestle gauge. Okay? Set to the wrestle lesser gauge. Now on the screen here, I have the receiver rankings. Now, something peculiar is happening here as we look through our receiver rankings here. We have a guy that's not a receiver as far as receptions that is at number five here. So let's let's look at the top five receiver, the top ten, I should say. White receivers last year, basically some receptions. Justin Jefferson, Beast, course. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Please. Tyree Kil. Travis Kelsey, and let me get the numbers for the for the podcast audience. Justin Jefferson hundred twenty eight receptions, Tyria Kale, a hundred nineteen receptions, Travis Kale, a hundred and ten receptions. Yet over to hundred, you're a good receiver, to be honest with Yeah. Stéphane Diggs, a hundred and eight receptions. And, oh, wait a second. Austin Echler. At a hundred and seven receptions tonight. He's not a receiver. Right? He's not a receiver? What is he doing on his list? A hundred and seven receptions for Austin equity? This is where it I diverged from not paying a running back. How are you not gonna pay a running back that has a hundred and seven receptions? What are you paying the receivers? Because there's a lot of the receivers that let's I don't even know if I can find. Let's let's find other guys on this. Can I find Cedric Wilson and also gauge on this list? Scrolling down for the podcast audience here. I don't even know if the list goes that far. But let me go to the next page. Let's go to the next page to see if I can find a guy here. We're looking for Cedric Wilson. Right? Cedric Wilson and Russell Gage. We're still scrolling.
Speaker 2:I'm not seeing it.
Speaker 1:Right? Still scrolling. Let's go to the next we're on a third page now for the parking lot. It's third page now. Let's keep scrolling.
Speaker 3:Cedric Wilson, Russell Gauge. Where are you? Alright. Alright, man.
Speaker 1:Russell Gauge. Okay. We got a Russell Gauge sign. Fifty one. Fifty one. Okay? Fifty one.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Let's go here. I don't even know if we get a friend, Cedric Wilson, and I don't even know if Cedric Wilson played all of last year. Think he may he's coming off an injury. He played with the Cowboys last year. He got traded. I wanna say, I think he played with the Cowboys last year, and I don't see him. So
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is this is getting kind of sad here, man. We're on Yeah. What what? We're on I don't know what page I'm on. At least the fourth or fifth page here, Just trying to find
Speaker 3:how many receptions Cedric Wilson had.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Now you get into the thirties, the reception, the thirty five options and it's it's getting granular.
Speaker 1:It is. Right? A hundred and seven reception guy can't get paid. Can't get paid. Man, and by the way, in trying to find Cedric Wilson on this list, we've already passed by many running backs. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep. We did.
Speaker 1:I I can't find them. So we're at twenty five receptions now. And I'm not I I thought he had more than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I
Speaker 1:really do. I really do. I don't know if they're just, like, not deciding not
Speaker 3:to put him on here. Let let's go down twenty three, twenty two.
Speaker 1:Man. I don't I don't see I don't see him here. He's not me making an appearance. He's not you're making an appearance here on this list.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. That's let let me just look it up here, man. Because I'm starting
Speaker 1:to feel bad for the guy. Let's just look up. Cedric Wilson last year and see. Let's go Cedric Wilson. We'll get a statue for last year. Boom.
Speaker 3:Stacks. Let's scroll here to see oh,
Speaker 1:man. That doesn't look good. Keep scrolling down here. Keep scrolling down. I guess we gotta go to
Speaker 3:our pro football top pro football reference here.
Speaker 1:That's because he had twelve.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Twelve receptions.
Speaker 2:Eleven day. We would
Speaker 1:have been here all day.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, let
Speaker 1:me apologize to my audience here. Okay. It's only forever. Who would have been here all day looking for this? Yeah. He would have been twelve receptions, one thirty six. Okay? So we go back here to where Austin Eckler is getting paid which is six point two million dollars.
Speaker 2:Six point two?
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Six point two million dollars. Right?
Speaker 3:And let's go to let's go to our receiver here. Let's update this. And let's go to wire receiver here for the audience.
Speaker 1:And let's see. So s I had him at fifth as far as receptions. Right? He had a hundred and seven receptions. The guy that was directly above him was Stephan Diggs. Stephan Diggs had a hundred and eight receptions. Right? Now let's go to what his oh, man. He's gonna get paid.
Speaker 2:Have you changed the tab?
Speaker 1:Twenty four million dollars.
Speaker 2:I'm still looking at the receiving tab, but nothing's up there. I don't know if you'd have to push the tab on you on that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let me go back here and see if
Speaker 3:I can switch to where this is at here. Receiving tab. Let's go over to our salary. Let's go back to this tab here then.
Speaker 2:There we go.
Speaker 1:Let's look at where Stephan is gonna pay, twenty four almost twenty million dollars more than this man. Or the podcast audience. And, you know, what's funny about this is Stephan Dixon, who's excellent receiver by the way, That's not gonna knock the money that he's making here. No. Had one more reception than Austin Nikola. Now Stephan still deserves to be paid more because he had a lot more reception yards than Austin equity. That's something that needs to be Put it into perspective. Yes. He has more yards. So that's something that needs to be put into perspective. At the same time, an eighteen million dollar difference for a guy with one more reception into you? An eighteen million dollar difference. Is that where we're at? I think Austin Echler deserves to be paid more money. Because they usually pay more money. I don't know if that is going to be Are we at? Thirteen thirteen million dollars more, maybe for him? Thirteen million bucks. I'm not sure what he what he maybe at least half of what? Stephan Diggs. Let's make it can we get it to twelve? That'd be half of half half of us Stephan Diggs for for Oste Becker there. I think there's there's argument to be made that Austin Echsner should be paid more money. Now here is where it's really gonna suck. For the other guys. And it's there is not really any evidence here. For other guys being paid. Now you had a a kind of the money back's kinda all getting together. And all kind of sticking up for each other in a sense. And and I think that's pretty pretty cool. You know, you run a max get together. They say, hey, we we deserve to be paid and you got guys. Like, Dalvin Cook, Josh Jacobs, you know, Seguin, they're all kinda like bonding together. You know? In they brought them together in a sense
Speaker 3:of I don't know if
Speaker 1:it's, like, running back brothership here.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Here I don't because they already have a union. Right? The NFLPA represents everybody. I don't know if you could peel out the running back union inside the NFLPA. But at the same time here, Eugene, they're all kind of bonding together here on this. And they're saying, hey, we all deserve to get paid. Now here's the last ad I'm gonna put up on the screen and it's gonna show you why. Imperical evidence says they probably don't deserve to be paid. Okay. So we have here to last, what is this roughly thirteen years or so here, Eugene, of Super Bowl winning. Running backs. Oh. Alright?
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:This list is brutal. If you are running back yourself, is where you wanna turn the show off and you're not even gonna you're not gonna wanna listen to the rest of this because this is where it's gonna get kinda brutal here. Going back to two thousand nine, when you look at all of the running backs and what they've been paid, no running back. Going back about roughly fourteen years has been paid more than two point five million dollars a year. None of them have. Right. So last year's super winning team, Isaiah Pacheco, and we're just gonna go down the list here. Let's go back. Let's go back from twenty twenty two. Back to two thousand nine for the podcast audience here. Isaiah Pacheco achieves eight hundred and seventy thousand dollars. Kammakers for the Rams, eight hundred and ninety thousand. Dollars Leonard Fornet for the Buckineers, two million dollars Damian Williams, for the Chiefs, one million dollars. Sunny Michelle, wow. For the Patriots, four hundred and eighty thousand dollars. The Garrett Blunt for the Eagles? Look at the Garrett Blunt, man. He was on two back to
Speaker 3:back winning Super Bowl teams. He's been on a few, but shout out to the Garrett Blunt.
Speaker 1:The Garrett Blunt for the Eagles. Nine hundred thousand dollars to twenty seventeen. Twenty sixteen Patriots, La Garret Blenigan, seven hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Twenty fifteen Bronco, CJ Anderson, five hundred and eighty five thousand dollars, twenty fourteen, Patrice, The Garrett Blunt, once again, seven thirty. Twenty thirteen Seahawks Persy Harbin. Two point five. Percy Harper, was he running back? I didn't think he was a wide receiver.
Speaker 2:He was kind of all and all kind of just a
Speaker 1:And and he happens to be the guy that made the two point five on his list. He he's really lightweight and anomaly. If you really want to --
Speaker 2:Yeah. -- because he was a crazy kick returner, y receiver, he did it all. He he was kind of that old package when he was at Florida too. So, yeah, he was kind of that old. He was all around player. But he probably was just sort of going back. I won't be surprised by that.
Speaker 1:It's very it's interesting to me, look, we're we have Cordell here doing that doing it right now. Twenty twelve, Raven's Ray Rice, two million Twenty eleven Giants, Samad Bradshaw, one point five. Twenty ten packers, James Starks. I know you remember that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Three hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Two thousand nine Saints, Pierre Thomas. Four hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Wow. These are the last fourteen years of Super Bowl winning teams. That's running backs. It does not at all support paying money backs. Now, I really want to cave for them. You know what I mean? Here you do, like, I really man, You know, I'm a pay that man guy. You know, hey, man. Pay that man. And you because then we all like saying that. Right? Pay pay the guy because it's not our money. No. Pay the man, man. But if a team is bringing up stuff like this, Eugene, how do they get paid?
Speaker 2:I don't know. And then you've had remember too, that I think what hurts the running backs is that you've had two failed big contracts with a tug early and the Zeke Elliott. Right? I mean, those two contracts are
Speaker 1:not helping.
Speaker 2:Not helping your
Speaker 1:-- Not all. --
Speaker 2:case. And then you saw Isaiah for the Chiefs,
Speaker 1:This round, I wanna say, for him.
Speaker 2:Seventh rounder, Lauren, crazy in the Super Bowl. So you got players like that. And, you know, in sodium played in that really boring suit ball, but I think he at least kept the kept the ball moving. Right? Or I think he even scored a touchdown in the game. But again, he did just enough to keep the ramps off the hill, keep the Patriots on the hill. That's what it is. It's gonna be if you have two or three running backs, you're just gonna keep two or three running backs. And just keep drafting young guys until especially now what the where the league is set up for receivers? I mean, Quarterbacks can basically not touch a receiver, and they're getting a passenger in their fear it's called pretty much all the time. I mean, it's got to that to that. Right? So you're gonna you're gonna take more chances down the field versus, you know, versus having write back or paying write And yeah. And you saw what was the Isaiah, I did have a great run, but you don't remember Isaiah's. Right? You remember Patrick Mahomes running down, and you're in front
Speaker 1:of the flipping around
Speaker 2:on the field. And he
Speaker 1:had down the field?
Speaker 2:Right. And he had that long that long that that's pretty much saving drive, and he he ran, like, thirty it's in that it's in the Netflix documentary too, by the way. But
Speaker 1:Right. Documentary quarterback for people who have not watched it. Excellent.
Speaker 2:But yeah. So you just there's just so many factors that are against paying them. And especially in the quarterbacks, they're more athletic. Look at the ones coming out next year. Every single one that lists can run, can be and, you know, and you'd and look at the look at the the running back that the Philadelphia, Miles Sanders. I can't did you remember mouse Andrew's playing in that game? That's her bowl.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:So he's and he's already gone. So what do they do? Philadelphia just signed, like, three guys for his salary. They they showed it's like, they showed Mylesander salary. And they showed every single running back, the the Philadelphia Eagles sign. His salary
Speaker 1:do it.
Speaker 2:It added up to his salary. It was like Beautiful. I mean, it was just a line. It was just and that's where you're gonna be. Like, I could what I I'd rather, you know, sign four or five guys at the minimum because it's it's like one of those guys is that's gotta hit. At least one or two is guys are gonna hit and you can can give me some production. For a couple games.
Speaker 1:What's your thoughts on Austin Echler situation? What are you what are your thoughts on now?
Speaker 2:The the thing was Austin. He's twenty eight. So we always know that
Speaker 1:he's gotta he's gotta get it now, bro. Like, he's really You gotta you don't wanna go another side of thirty. You'd be a running bat looking for
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Big money, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's never been, like, I've looked at his average. He's had a couple seasons where he's averaged about, you know, five, five yards of carry, but he's a low four and a half yards of carry guy. So why would I pay that? I mean, yes. I mean, yeah. He had some good receptions, but his reception yards were up, you know, six, you know, six About seven hundred. About seven hundred. But, like, a six yard average though. I mean, it's not nothing stevia, but why would I pay that money for that production when maybe I can find them. I can find a young guy that gets me that production.
Speaker 1:Do you think a young guy gets you a hundred and seven reception? Because you you looked at a hundred and seven reception. That's good enough for fifth in the entire league of all. No. The league of all.
Speaker 2:But maybe like I said, like the Philadelphia landscape. Maybe I pay two guys that can
Speaker 1:get get you fifty percent is a peace, a
Speaker 2:fifty reception, a peace that come in the turndowns. You know, maybe I have my, you know, maybe I have my my ball record guy, my first second neck, just my guy that can pound him in the middle, and then for a third and fourth pounds, I have my receiving worrying back. That's where you're looking at right now. I mean, if Josh Jacobs can pretty much ran over everybody last year. If that dude can't I mean, he'd let the league in in rusty yards. He's never he was never receiving it. I mean, let's just face it. Alabama is just never had a receive mortgage back. Let's just dot their MO. That's when this and I'm knocking out. I'm not knocking out, man.
Speaker 1:Also, let's look at the seven thirty six. Only it too. And maybe if they played on a team with Justin Herbert, they have more receptions, you know?
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. That helps as well too. So yeah. It's just it just doesn't look good and and, you know, here's the thing. They all agree to it. So they all sit down, like, the player association, they all agree on what the standard is gonna be for for what the franchise tag is gonna be. And for whatever reason, man, our handbags are getting phased out. So even even Austin, he has kind of the air the consistent kind of season, but that's too skinny to get paid.
Speaker 1:You know, I I feel like it is there is a way to kinda split the baby here in my opinion, and I feel like that is gonna be done with basically you can split the baby in my opinion by just giving shorter deals. Like, you you don't have to give the guy like a four to five year deal. Give him like three year like I said, a three year two guaranteed. Like, I don't know if that's crazy. I don't know. You you you commit, what, twenty five, thirty million dollars for God, that's not killing you. And then just see what happens with that with that with that better back versus, you know, ones that aren't as great. But I do think that there is something to be said about some of those quarterback teams. And were you looking at the stats that I the last stat that I presented that was pretty damning for paying a running back. And the Super Bowl was, like, these all had, like, pretty much hall of fame quarterbacks too. Like, the EU. So if you have a hall of fame quarterback, of course, you don't have to pay your running back. Right? Like, okay. You have a hall of fame guy at quarterback, a one of one of a a one zero one almost. You know, especially when you patch my homes, if he's considered to be the best, that helped that you had patching my homes back there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just a little bit of help there.
Speaker 1:So I I feel like there is a middle ground there. I feel like there's a middle ground there. Evidence doesn't say that you give running back sixty, seventy million dollars like you would a white receiver. Right. Evidence says you don't do it. But at the same time, can you give the guy thirty? Can you give him half, especially a guy that catches a lot of passes I don't think that's crazy. And here's a hope in a round basket it worked out. I think that maybe another thing that they could do is shorten the time before they can get to actual free ages. See because what's happening is they're coming out of college, and the team can really lock you up for what? Four, five years or so.
Speaker 2:First round, man. So like I said, Bijan, we got them before. And then you have that team option
Speaker 1:for TASM.
Speaker 2:Fred well, yeah. You're gonna have to prioritize them. You just pick up the option for the fifth year.
Speaker 1:So you can really lock a guy up six, seven years because you can franchise a guy twice. Right? So I I feel like you can lock him up, so you get a runny back let's say he comes to the league and he comes to the league at what? Twenty one? Twenty two ish? Twenty one? Twenty two ish? Just just just say he comes to the league around there. You can lock him up to his almost thirty.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:No. Before he ever reaches free agency.
Speaker 2:Ever reaches free agency. Yeah. So
Speaker 1:that maybe can be worked on. Maybe that's what they work on in the in the for a running back position, maybe they take that down to where a running back can reach free agency a lot sooner. Versus having it where a team can lock you up for almost ten years without really giving you a free agent contract.
Speaker 2:And increase their free c tag number. I mean, at least get it up to fifteen. Right? Get them Well,
Speaker 1:it's it's based on an average. And if the average isn't great, if they're if they're not doing run backs, it's not gonna it's gonna just gonna crest because I don't see that average going up. They're paying running backs less and less. Yeah. And being based on average, it doesn't bode well for that franchise tag, man. In the future, next, let's talk a little bit here about baseball because we have O'Tany coming up here, which is pretty much the the talk of the town as the the trade deadline approaches at the August first is that trade deadline.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So this might be the last show we get in before that trade deadline happens. Second is strike outs. Batch three zero two as a hundred eleven hits and is the same guy. What do you what do you do with this here? You do? Like, we we I the angels so here's the thing. Here's an olema. Represent the dilemma for you. Tell me how you would handle it. The dilemma is an exec who wants his name attached to trading O'Tani. Right? So for that's for first thing you have to and exec who wants to be the guy because we know going way back in the day, there's one team that's famous for trading a guy like O'Tany named babe Ruth. And that team has never lived it down. That team was a red Sox.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And I think it was for, like, a parade. And ice skating, it was for something that wasn't even baseball related when they traded them to the Inc. So you don't want and that trade's gone down an ipi. Right? Like like a horrible one of the worst trades of all time. Will you see a generational talent? Like, autonomy come back up again? He's gonna take a guy with a I mean, you're you're gonna have to I I the good the difference here is there's free agency. So back in Bay Route Dave, there was no free agency. So the difference here I will tell you is that he could just walk anyway. So it's not like you could just hold the guy there. Nope. So it takes an exec who's gonna say, I traded Otani, and we were still had a shot at at some playoffs And I don't know if the angels just wanna trade their draw. I mean, of course, they got trout there, but at no time he's like ruling the world right now.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So it's you're gonna trade your draw as well. Me, personally, I'm gonna have to swallow the pride and do it because I think you're either gonna do what's the best for the team --
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:-- or try to say face by just saying, hey, I wasn't the guy. Right? It wasn't me. I didn't trade this generational talent. You know what I mean? What can you get for the guy? If you decide to take that route, if you decide to say, hey, I'm going to not trade them. Or I'm I'm going to trade them. You decide, hey, I'm going to trade them. I'm gonna be that guy. I'm gonna do his best for the team. I think he's gonna walk anyway. Right. So I'm gonna trade them. What what then? And what do you get for him?
Speaker 2:What do you well, that's the problem is so no matter what. So if you let's just use the Braze for instance, maybe they you know, I just don't think we have enough talent, but let's just say, just for argument, we're gonna use the braze. So -- Yeah.
Speaker 1:--
Speaker 2:you straight straight to the braze and we give them a number of prospects. The issue is no matter what team he goes to, if it sprays, whoever, he could still walk. It's not like it's not like
Speaker 1:I have to have a handshake deal with somebody he gets traded too for the amount of sources that he's going to require. Right? Kinda how they do basketball and football? Right. Kinda like you trade a guy. And in theory, he can walk. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But you kinda have an agreement that the person's going to resign with that team because teams don't wanna give up a massive amount of capitals at least without a handshake or something something there that says that this guy's gonna wanna be there. That's why you don't trade him to Cincinnati or something to a place where you just feel like he's just not gonna wanna go because a lot of people are and you must stand on West Coast. Right? So, yep, you got to talk to a guy if you're gonna make a trade like this. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. And there's no And there's no reason for him not to hit free agency. Like, he's gonna make I mean, we've heard upwards of five hundred million dollars.
Speaker 1:Doing that easily, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Easily. Because if you if you take the average of what he's done on both sides of the field, like, he's a he's he's a twenty five million dollar player, twenty five thirty five million dollar, as a pitcher, if he leaves as a pitcher. He's a twenty five million dollar twenty five million dollar, thirty five million dollar player if he's a if he's a batter.
Speaker 1:You put that together, these guys worth seventy million dollars. Anywhere from fifty to seventy million dollars.
Speaker 2:Right. So right there, if you just put those numbers, that's what you'd work. So the issue is like, with like, they want, like, a a wants a wants soda kind of return. But with one he had one more year of, like, you know, of of eligibility. So they didn't you know, so you you kinda didn't have to do the contract right away. So like you what you're saying, if you give up a ton of prospects, he can still walk on you. Now you can offer him a you can you give him a qualifying offer but he but that's just a draft pick. That's a that's a first round draft pick and whatever that team so if he falls to the braze, let's just save the braze trade for him. And he leaves and you put a qualifying offer on him, well, we're gonna get there what our team's just gonna get a lower draft pick? It's not like you're gonna get a high draft pick. Well, the great thing is I think Tampa Tampa has the best opportunity. They have the most draft picks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And
Speaker 2:they and they have so much talent, not dropping. So they have so many prospects. And and the only since it's the last part of the contract, you're really paying about ten million dollars. So you're not you're not killing your payroll to ring them on. And if you're ten of a, can bring him in for just the last bit of the season and he walks. You just you've added a a pretty much guys could take you to the Role Series, can just put you on his back and take
Speaker 1:you Just get you over to over to him. Basically, what you're saying. I got him to get you over to him to where you have a chance at winning a ship and then you're okay. But Yeah. Because I feel like at that point, we ultimately, these teams will trade in a lot of of years and money to win the chip. So if you get a guy that gets you over to hump and you're able to win a championship, Okay. Yeah. Okay. I can see that. Trade it's kinda like to fly
Speaker 2:it's kinda like to fly litter. You know, hey. He comes Sir, he comes in and then he leaves next year. Same thing with this. So attempt matrix form. They have they have the capital. They have that of capital. They can throw it all at at the angels. So here you go, And then if he walks next year, well, we're a low we're a low payroll team anyway, so we weren't gonna be able to resign them. But thanks for the championship. You know, well, maybe we're maybe we'll put you on our own
Speaker 1:you think about a rental perspective is what you're saying?
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. Now, if you're if you're, like, the braves, you have the capital to resign them. Right? You have them. But again, we don't I just don't think we have the talent to give up. But at the same time, if you're the angels, if you're a team bidding to the angels, you don't have to give up too much because you know he's gonna hit for agency. So if you don't like my deal, so if I'm like if I'm Atlanta, well, I'll just wait. I'll wait. Because I know he's gonna be for agent. Maybe I'll try and win him in in the in the fall, bid for him. Because there's gonna be a lot of teams bidding for him.
Speaker 1:I mean, It it's it's a situation I'm glad. I I don't I don't envy it. Know it'd be the angels here and trying to figure out exactly what they do. What's unfortunate is having trout and autonomy in the same team and not being able to cap the lies. Like, it it's right. It's like seeing that it slipped through your hands. Right? You're you're seeing it slipped through your hands, man. You guys had a shot and something special there. And it doesn't like it's gonna materialize at least well, I don't think he's staying. So I was I was gonna say at least this year, but I don't I mean, wouldn't that be the big a shocker if he actually resigns with the handles, wouldn't that be the biggest shocker?
Speaker 2:It would be. It'd be shocking since he's you know, the cool thing is is, like, during his negotiation for his contract, you know? Because, you know, they they do a qualifying offer, you know, you you do these things that you you kinda go back and forth and they give you a number. And if you can't agree, you go to an, you know, arbitration hearing, so boring, whatever. The interesting thing about him is he took less money. He couldn't went to that arbitration hearing, got more money. Right? But the cool that he does he he's like, I don't want to be a distraction kind of player. But the thing, and he's and he like you said, he likes being on the West Coast, I think his girlfriend, her wife, she's in she's in acting, and it's obviously it's close to, you know, obviously being in in California, that's where, you know, you or you wanna be. But the interesting thing is is, on the in the world based podcast, you know, there was the reporter is talking to him and he had a he had a sense of what that felt like, you know, play out baseball, that atmosphere. And, you know, he he probably wants to have that. He's going forward
Speaker 1:to win, bro.
Speaker 2:He wants to win. He wants you know, he he did all the right things for the angels and and they're just not they're just not gonna fart smarts. They're just gonna smart franchise. They just don't I don't know what it is. But yeah. If I'm them, like you said, get as much as I can for them. Get as much as I can and and just rebuild rebuild my team. Look.
Speaker 1:And the other state might take a bite at the apple here. But I feel like every team is gonna take a bite at every team's really gonna kick the tires even though, like, you know, just like in any sport when you have a great free agent that becomes available. But there's really only a few from a contractual situation, from what they have to offer situation. There's really only a few teams in the running. But every team's gonna at least, you know, look at it. And this is the same situation I find is gonna happen with Otony. We'll we'll see within the next week here how that comes down. Now getting back to the contracts that are kind of lingering here. We have Jaylen Brown is gonna is can make the most money, and I think he will be making the most. Because I think there the Celtics are gonna get this deal done. And I think it's over three hundred million dollars. Over the hundred million dollar, Jalen Brown, has a chance to to close that deal. You think there's any fireworks there? Or I think Celsius get that done?
Speaker 2:I think so. I just think it's odd. I'm still thinking it's odd that all these contractors said just happened so fast and why is this taking so long? You know, he's I
Speaker 1:think it's taken so long because of that number. Yeah. I feel like that that number, I think, as and and and I have to see similarities here with Jaylen Brown and Damien Lillard taken a minute to move Lilly. It takes a minute to move over a quarter billion dollars, takes a long longer time to move, that amount of money. Right? Right. And we're we're that's where we're these contracts have gotten so large Eugene. This ain't something that's gonna be done overnight anymore. Like, you guys got to think about logging hard. About paying that quarter of a billion dollars to that player, especially when you look at where the later numbers end up. In their career. So the the numbers get astronomical later in these guys careers. Right? So you got these guys into their mid thirties, sixty, seventy million dollars. And that's gonna make a lot of team's stomach hurt. You know, that's funny. So I I get it. I get that it's gonna take a little bit longer. I think that the difference is and I don't even think there is much of a difference with the Lillard and and Jalen Brown situation in the sense that I think both of these get done. Lillard's gonna be moved. I think they're gonna try to convince him to stay. I think that maybe that's a little bit more up in the in the air because Jaylon Brown's already on his team, and I think there's this Celtics are gonna keep him.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Unless his lure needs to be moved to the teams and there's more moving parts there and that need to happen for him. You know? But I do think it ultimately gets done. I think he ends up getting moved, but paying these players that much money in those final years of the contract, I think, is making teams. Giving teams pause. You know what I mean? Yeah. What about the future point?
Speaker 2:Oh, no. I was just saying, my only thing with JALEN is is I've I've just everything that happened with the Kevin Durant, because we knew he was he was in the conversation with Kevin Durant. If I wanna kinda mend that fence, I feel like I would've got that done faster. That's just my only point. It's like, why why why would I drag this on any further that I hate We dragged you through the mud all last year, putting you in the Kevin Durant. And there was a art, you know, there was articles out that he was not a very about that. So
Speaker 1:Yes. Because I remember those.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess my only pushback is, like, why why make them more mad? You know, why upset him more? Like, get it done quicker, you know? Especially when everyone's got done fast when when the time came up for the contracts get done.
Speaker 1:What I'm hoping is, internally, they've already kinda smooth that over. I'm hoping that internally. They've had conversations like, listen, this is done, man. This is a done deal. We're just working out the details. Right. You know what I mean? So we might not it might not have been announced to us But that doesn't always mean that the player's floundering themselves. You know what I mean? Somebody could've reached out to them by, hey, or maybe their agent, hey, listen. This is done because I think David Brown was out of the country for a while. So he wasn't even around to, like, negotiate the this Dylan's agents negotiating it anyway. Right. But You never know if if the team is is kinda smooth that out with a player. Like, this is only formality. It's take where the lawyers are working or the contracts are being working. You know, we're we're finalizing the text, but but this, you're a very rich man. Like, we're already telling you that you're you're you're not leaving. Gotcha. You know, so he could have already been told that I'm not saying he has been, but I think it's smart. If the team is gonna keep a guy as smart for you to have that kind of conversation --
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:-- to give a guy a peace of mind. Yeah. You know? Any surprise on Aaron Rogers' extension? I think it was three years, about roughly fifty million a year. I think a little over, like, fifty one, I wanna say. Any surprise there?
Speaker 2:No. I think it's good. I mean, I I, you know, you'll have the one you're left and it makes sense to go, hey, just we're not we're not asking you to be here long, you know, more more than three years. But, you know, at least give us two since we gave up so much capital for you. Yeah. And I think it easy and come out and said, you know what? I would be able to do service to the Jeff's franchise and the finance if I always take one year left. So I
Speaker 1:kinda agree with that. Yeah. At least two.
Speaker 2:At least two.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, no no disagreement there. This is just a stats. Thank you for listening here. Check us out, stay true. I have a radio, Google podcast, have a podcast spot of five, wherever you find your podcast. See you next time, guys.